[Socal] You gotta see this

Tue Feb 19 18:41:53 CST 2008

With all due respect, I don't know you at all but you do not get to decide
whether I am brown first or a woman first.  I don't give a rat's ass what
studies say I know how I walk through the world, I know how I experience
personal AND systemic oppression and your statement offends me deeply and
feels rather patronizing.  Don't tell me what I get or don't get.  That's a
personal attack and it's rude and not a way to establish dialogue on common
ground.

On Feb 19, 2008 4:28 PM, Con Jordan <tiamet at cox.net> wrote:

>  You don't seem to get the fact that when you say someone is "your own"
> you have to include women. You are a woman first. In a study done in 1999
> people consistently rated women as inferior in a psycology experiment. Women
> had to be twice as articulate and successful as men to even be seen
> as equal. It is ingrained in our culture. It didn't matter the
> color......the sex counted more. In the same study people identified the
> people being rated in the video's as "that woman" or "that man" before color
> was mentioned. To have a woman president is a bigger deal for all women of
> color or white. Having a MAN (of color) president does not equal the playing
> field for women at all. And we are women first.  Our loyalties should lie
> with one of our own. Boys already know they can be president or leader there
> are lots of men in positions of power. Not so for little girls.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Mari Lopez <tootsielopez at hotmail.com>
> *To:* socal at butch-femme.com
>   *Sent:* Tuesday, February 19, 2008 5:15 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Socal] You gotta see this
>
> Well, its great that we are all entitled to our opinions.  However, if we
> talk about equality and level playing fields, oppression, etc., we cannot in
> the same breath that we mention these grounds, disregard 300 years of
> slavery.
>
> Mari
>
>
>  ------------------------------
> From: tiamet at cox.net
> To: socal at butch-femme.com
> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:06:34 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Socal] You gotta see this
>
> As a woman I disagree, we have been oppressed throughout history while
> men( white or of color) have ruled the world. It is our opportunity to
> support a WOMAN candidate. I don't see them as being equal at all. I see
> Hillary as being smarter and more capable and as usual the patriarchy is
> supporting a male. I am tired of hearing that we have two great choices this
> year. I believe we have one great choice and the opportunity to equal the
> playing field for women.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* T Mateu <theislandgrrrl at gmail.com>
> *To:* socal at butch-femme.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 19, 2008 4:10 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Socal] You gotta see this
>
> Can I second what Mari said and suggest respect be the norm.  There are
> negative points to either candidate but I prefer to focus on the amazing
> fact that we GET to chose between a white woman and black man to run for
> president, both with pros and cons.  Obama is a person of color and also one
> of MY own.  Hillary has also backed the war, has waffled on positions, has
> not been aggressive about immigrant rights, etc. Neither candidate is
> perfect but what a great moment in history and what a great opportunity,
> regardless of whom we support!
>
> Just sayin'
> Thea
>
> On Feb 19, 2008 3:06 PM, Con Jordan <tiamet at cox.net> wrote:
>
>  I am just really prickly about this issue because the Obama supporters
> are being so in your face. Hillary has been a champion for womens causes for
> longer than Obama has been around. She is smart, capable and A WOMAN. Lets
> support one of our own for a change. And by the way I am a butch too.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Mari Lopez <tootsielopez at hotmail.com>
> *To:* socal at butch-femme.com
>   *Sent:* Tuesday, February 19, 2008 3:48 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Socal] You gotta see this
>
> Hey Folks,
> I think its great that some are excited about November's election.  Though
> we may not support the same candidate I would hope that this would be a
> friendly forum where anyone can speak about why they support their favorite
> pundit.  We all get finger-wagged enough from those outside our community
> and so I hope we can be even our political selves with the same respect as
> being our B-F selves.  This contest should be seen as a time for healthy,
> passionate, respectful debate as we have not had the prospect of two
> candidates who equally excite the population and our hopes for the future.
> Instead of the lesser of two evils we get too choose the best of just
> deserts!
>
> My two cents (that yes, I know no one asked for)
>
> Mari (Butch)
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> From: tiamet at cox.net
> To: socal at butch-femme.com
> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 14:48:52 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Socal] You gotta see this
>
> The only thing I know for certain about Obama is that he quotes from other
> peoples speeches implying that the ideas are his own. I think there is a
> word for that  oh yea... plagerism.... and oh yea if you do that in school
> you get an F and maybe kicked out of the class or suspended. I also
> know that he is all talk and has  no policy ideas of his own . Just because
> you are swept up in the mania of his support doesn't  mean the rest of us
> are. I support Clinton because she has always supported women and gays but I
> am not sending video's to group members touting how great she is.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Jen DeLaO <floatingcloudwomyn at yahoo.com>
> *To:* socal at butch-femme.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 19, 2008 11:02 AM
> *Subject:* [Socal] You gotta see this
>
>   I just watched an incredibly inspiring video made by some Obama
> supporters you might recognize. It's hard to put its impact into words --
> please just watch:http://my.barackobama.com/YesWeCanvideoIt's a song
> inspired by a speech Barack Obama delivered a few weeks ago. It's performed
> by musicians Will.i.am <http://will.i.am/>, John Legend, Common, and
> others.This is something special, so please check it out:
> http://my.barackobama.com/YesWeCanvideoIf<http://my.barackobama.com/page/ic/no72bq0i2cnxao/SjxTRjQBJVULRVlRVAp6Bw%253D%253D>your state is voting today, please don't forget to get the polls, and be
> sure to share this with anyone you know who might need some motivation to
> get out and vote. If you or anyone you know needs help, you can find it by
> clicking on your state here:http://my.barackobama.com/feb5statesThank<http://my.barackobama.com/page/ic/no72bq0i2cnxao/SgNTV1YXElURVkNhWQRdCg%253D%253D>you ....
>
>
>
> ---------
> A user has sent this message from BarackObama.com. The sender's name,
> email address, subject and message have not been verified.
> ------------------------------
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>
>
> This free mailing list group is part of the www.Butch-Femme.com<http://www.butch-femme.com/>web site. See our Community Channel for 25+ various mailing list groups of
> interest to Butches and Femmes. We also have free chat, free Matchmaker
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> Butch-Femme.com stays online in part due to donations. Your community
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> ------------------------------
>
>
> This free mailing list group is part of the www.Butch-Femme.com<http://www.butch-femme.com/>web site. See our Community Channel for 25+ various mailing list groups of
> interest to Butches and Femmes. We also have free chat, free Matchmaker
> personals, Forums, Galleries, and more.
>
> Butch-Femme.com stays online in part due to donations. Your community
> appreciates your support.
> (http://www.butch-femme.com/portal/forums/misc.php?do=donate)
> _______________________________________________
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> This free mailing list group is part of the www.Butch-Femme.com<http://www.butch-femme.com/>web site. See our Community Channel for 25+ various mailing list groups of
> interest to Butches and Femmes. We also have free chat, free Matchmaker
> personals, Forums, Galleries, and more.
>
> Butch-Femme.com stays online in part due to donations. Your community
> appreciates your support.
> (http://www.butch-femme.com/portal/forums/misc.php?do=donate)
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> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1286 - Release Date: 2/18/2008
> 6:49 PM
>
>
> This free mailing list group is part of the www.Butch-Femme.com<http://www.butch-femme.com/>web site. See our Community Channel for 25+ various mailing list groups of
> interest to Butches and Femmes. We also have free chat, free Matchmaker
> personals, Forums, Galleries, and more.
>
> Butch-Femme.com stays online in part due to donations. Your community
> appreciates your support.
> (http://www.butch-femme.com/portal/forums/misc.php?do=donate)
> _______________________________________________
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