[Socal] You gotta see this

Tue Feb 19 18:48:40 CST 2008

I agree with much of what Mari and Thea said, especially in regard to respecting each other's opinions and that we're not all going to agree on who the best candidate is.  The main thing is, we have a chance to make some major changes in the country this election cycle, so it's important for everyone to register to vote and then vote.  I'll be 53 in three weeks and can't remember an election as exciting as this one, and we may never see anything quite like this again in our lifetimes.  

At any rate, both candidates are very smart and capable, and I'll vote for whoever gets the nomination.  However, I voted for Obama (and saw the video that started this discussion a few weeks ago), because I think he has a chance to shake things up more than Clinton and isn't as conservative as she is (I'm not saying she's conservative in the traditional sense).  In fact, most people I know have voted for Obama, including my best friend's 80+ year old mother.  I've been a feminist since the age of 17 and have a lifelong history of working for women's rights, GLBT rights, civil rights, etc.  I was only 17 in 1972, so couldn't vote for president, but would have voted for Shirley Chisolm (the first woman and only African American woman to run for president in the recent past) in the primary, if it had been possible.  Given my background, most people would think that I'd vote for Clinton, since I do want to see a woman in the White House and think it's long past time that a woman was president.  However, just like I wouldn't vote for a gay Republican or a Jewish Republican, I'm not voting for Clinton just because she's a woman.  I'm voting for who I think is the best candidate.  

In regard to Obama's policies, check out his web site, where they're gone into, in more detail.  As for the charges of plagarism, he apparently used portions of Duval Patrick's (the gov of Mass.) speech with his permission, but forgot to give him credit, which he has since apologized for; they're apparently longtime friends and often share ideas/thoughts with one another.  In this campaign, like those in prior years, fault can be found with candidates for almost anything they say or do, and a lot of it is nit-picking.  Perhaps it's time to stop this sort of thing and focus on the big picture.  

I'll get off my soapbox now.  LOL

Gail

Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 16:17:02 -0800From: theislandgrrrl at gmail.comTo: socal at butch-femme.comSubject: Re: [Socal] You gotta see this
As a woman of color I have to vehemently disagree that men of color have in any way ruled within the United States.  If we want to get into world politics we can also have that discussion as well and incorporate systems of oppression and even shadism into it.  But I digress.  I am uninterested in attacking Hillary, but I for one would like to see the playing field leveled for POC as well.  Personally I find it much more useful to look for the positive elements that unite us and the strengths in BOTH candidates.  

I'd be interested in hearing how Hillary has been "smarter" in the race because I'm not sure I see that.  I see some issues where her views align with mine and many issues where I find her position to be inadequate at best, contradictory and weak in many cases as well. 

In addition to seeing two good candidates, I also see an opportunity for dialogue to surface around critical issues of privilege and oppression at a systemic level.  

On Feb 19, 2008 4:06 PM, Con Jordan <tiamet at cox.net> wrote:

As a woman I disagree, we have been oppressed throughout history while men( white or of color) have ruled the world. It is our opportunity to support a WOMAN candidate. I don't see them as being equal at all. I see Hillary as being smarter and more capable and as usual the patriarchy is supporting a male. I am tired of hearing that we have two great choices this year. I believe we have one great choice and the opportunity to equal the playing field for women. 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: T Mateu 
To: socal at butch-femme.com 

Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Socal] You gotta see this

Can I second what Mari said and suggest respect be the norm.  There are negative points to either candidate but I prefer to focus on the amazing fact that we GET to chose between a white woman and black man to run for president, both with pros and cons.  Obama is a person of color and also one of MY own.  Hillary has also backed the war, has waffled on positions, has not been aggressive about immigrant rights, etc. Neither candidate is perfect but what a great moment in history and what a great opportunity, regardless of whom we support!  

Just sayin'
Thea
On Feb 19, 2008 3:06 PM, Con Jordan <tiamet at cox.net> wrote:

I am just really prickly about this issue because the Obama supporters are being so in your face. Hillary has been a champion for womens causes for longer than Obama has been around. She is smart, capable and A WOMAN. Lets support one of our own for a change. And by the way I am a butch too.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Mari Lopez 
To: socal at butch-femme.com 

Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Socal] You gotta see this
Hey Folks,I think its great that some are excited about November's election.  Though we may not support the same candidate I would hope that this would be a friendly forum where anyone can speak about why they support their favorite pundit.  We all get finger-wagged enough from those outside our community and so I hope we can be even our political selves with the same respect as being our B-F selves.  This contest should be seen as a time for healthy, passionate, respectful debate as we have not had the prospect of two candidates who equally excite the population and our hopes for the future.  Instead of the lesser of two evils we get too choose the best of just deserts! My two cents (that yes, I know no one asked for) Mari (Butch) 

From: tiamet at cox.netTo: socal at butch-femme.comDate: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 14:48:52 -0700Subject: Re: [Socal] You gotta see this
The only thing I know for certain about Obama is that he quotes from other peoples speeches implying that the ideas are his own. I think there is a word for that  oh yea... plagerism.... and oh yea if you do that in school you get an F and maybe kicked out of the class or suspended. I also know that he is all talk and has  no policy ideas of his own . Just because you are swept up in the mania of his support doesn't  mean the rest of us are. I support Clinton because she has always supported women and gays but I am not sending video's to group members touting how great she is.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jen DeLaO 
To: socal at butch-femme.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 11:02 AM
Subject: [Socal] You gotta see this

I just watched an incredibly inspiring video made by some Obama supporters you might recognize. It's hard to put its impact into words -- please just watch:http://my.barackobama.com/YesWeCanvideoIt's a song inspired by a speech Barack Obama delivered a few weeks ago. It's performed by musicians Will.i.am, John Legend, Common, and others.This is something special, so please check it out:http://my.barackobama.com/YesWeCanvideoIf your state is voting today, please don't forget to get the polls, and be sure to share this with anyone you know who might need some motivation to get out and vote. If you or anyone you know needs help, you can find it by clicking on your state here:http://my.barackobama.com/feb5statesThank you ....---------A user has sent this message from BarackObama.com. The sender's name, email address, subject and message have not been verified.

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